wolfgirl569 wrote on December 9, 2015, 9:23 AM

I had not seen that one but have heard of similar things happening. Watching a repeat of history at this time is very sad but scary too.

DWDavisRSL wrote on December 9, 2015, 10:04 AM

I know. What's next, boycotting businesses owned and run by Muslims? Even my seventh graders can point out the parallels.

JohnRoberts wrote on December 9, 2015, 10:27 AM

Where is your outcry over a liberal government employing the same Fascist tactics you describe? Using the IRS to hound conservatives. Do your students recognize the parallels between this administration and suffocating Communist governments? Suppressing free speech because it isn't lock step in with liberal values. Why is it okay for angry protesters over every black killing or trashing New York during the Wall Street protests or protesting outside Catholic churches and on and one. If it's okay to boycott a business over minimum wage or over Christian owner beliefs (Hobby Lobby) what's wrong with boycotting a Muslim owned business if done in a peaceful non-destructive manner? You have to accept sane people disagree with you and have a growing amount of logic to back up their opinions. Do their opinions count or are you a supressor because they don't agree with you?

msiduri wrote on December 9, 2015, 10:47 AM

All that aside, what good does boycotting Muslim-owned businesses and protesting outside mosques do? What possible constructive steps can come of these angry actions?

MegL wrote on December 9, 2015, 11:02 AM

Well said and it's not in my name either. There was an anti immigrant rally held in Belfast Northern Ireland last Saturday and they were outnumbered by opposing groups, welcoming those from Syria,

JohnRoberts wrote on December 9, 2015, 11:10 AM

Nothing but what does any kind of protest accomplish in the end? However, such protests do send a message that people are upset that perhaps politicians (yes, a fantasy) will pay attention to. Actually I can think of such protests that were effective: women suffragettes protesting for the right to vote. You have to ask why are there protests at mosques etc. The immediate assumption it's a bunch of racist white men. Did it ever occur that it is world wide actions committed by those in the name of one religion? Do not condemn those who protest from fear but those deliberately fostering that fear. There is an accepted stereotyping of white men as Christian racist bigots that seems to be acceptable in society but it is not acceptable to stereotype Muslims. Double standard.

Rufuszen wrote on December 9, 2015, 11:15 AM

wolfgirl569 and I are thinking the same thing. A repeat of history, only written small with big consequences.That medieval mentallity is still out there.

DWDavisRSL wrote on December 9, 2015, 11:55 AM

JohnRoberts , you have an interesting habit of bringing a lot of unrelated arguments into a discussion. Here we are having a discussion about people who are bringing guns to protest at a mosque and you bring up the IRS, Black Lives Matter, the minimum wage, and anarchists. Then, when I clearly state that Trump and his followers may say whatever they want you accuse me of trying to silence them. As to all the unrelated matters you did mention, you have no idea of my stance on any of those issues, so to accuse me of being on the wrong side of them is a bit presumptuous.



When the IRS was hounding conservatives I did raise an outcry. And, yes, my students are rather astute at recognizing government excess and its intrusion into the personal lives of its citizens.



If you read my post carefully, I did acknowledge the right of Trump and his followers to espouse whatever hateful rhetoric they wish. I just wanted those who are targets of their hate and bigotry to know that those particular Americans are not speaking in my name.



I don't recall ever denying anyone's right to protest about anything. I do believe that it is dangerous and unproductive to show up armed outside a place of worship to protest the very existence of the people inside. That is not a protest. That is intimidation and a form of terrorism in its own right. There is nothing peaceful about standing outside someone's house of worship with a gun and telling them they should pack up and leave the country.



The boycotting of Hobby Lobby was an utter failure and as far as I remember, the boycott died before ever really getting started. If a private citizen wants not to shop at Muslim owned businesses, that is his or her business. My comment was directed at the possibility of government directed boycotting of such businesses.



I never said anyone's opinions don't count, and if anything, the specter of oppression is coming from you in your attempt to tell me I should not voice my opinion on the matter. I invite all persons with differing opinions, if they can stay on topic and state them in a civil manner, to do so.

LeaPea2417 wrote on December 9, 2015, 1:06 PM

I will say something I just thought about. Do you remember how American's were saying that not enough Muslims were upset and standing against 9/11? Today, there are segments of Muslims that are saying that they do not support ISIS. There was a group of Muslims in Greenville SC recently who peacefully protested against ISIS. Why are not more American's now praising those groups?

DWDavisRSL wrote on December 9, 2015, 1:37 PM

We agree that politicians are deaf to protests, unless, of course, the protesters are major contributors. I am a Christian white man and would like to think I am not a bigot, but the fact remains that the people involved in most of these not-quite-peaceful protests have been conservative white men. However, as a student of logic, I do understand that while the anti-Muslim protesters in question may be, by and large, conservative white men, not all conservative white men are anti-Muslim protesters. Thank you, Philosophy 101 professor whose name is lost to antiquity.

WordChazer wrote on December 9, 2015, 2:46 PM

They might even be buying white hoods and professing supremacy. I read an interesting article earlier on the BBC about the fact that Trump seems to be destroying the party from inside. 'Playing with matches in the party tent' was the phrase. I'm sure he must LOVE having Obama in the White House. Not.

msiduri wrote on December 9, 2015, 4:01 PM

JohnRoberts What message does protesting outside mosques and boycotting Muslim-owned businesses send? To whom is this message sent? Does is liberate anyone? Does it win anyone the right to vote? The analogy with the women suffragettes is a false analogy.

Yes, some of the people who are perpetuated violence against Americans are Muslim. But most of the victims of these extremists are Muslims themselves. And most of Muslims—the people worshipping in the mosques you suggest protesting outside and running those businesses you suggest boycotting—want nothing more to do with the extremists than you or I do. I suggest your anger and your fear are misplaced. And that saddens me because I see it as a further unnecessary polarization of our society.

LeaPea2417 wrote on December 9, 2015, 6:35 PM

Trump is not destroying the party from inside. It is the main stream Republican Establishment who is tearing the Republican party up. The Republican Establishment is so middle of the road, they may as well be Democrats. They are not conservative enough. They don't stand for anything. They have ruined the Republican party and as a result, if a true conservative doesn't win the nomination, then Hillary will definitely be the first woman president.

DWDavisRSL wrote on December 9, 2015, 6:46 PM

Trump may be deliberately trying to destroy the Republican Party from the inside. After all, he used to be a staunch Democrat and close with Bill and Hillary.

DWDavisRSL wrote on December 9, 2015, 6:49 PM

I'm glad to read that. We need to come together as a united humanity against the inhuman monsters of Daesh if we are going to defeat them. Alienating the people in the best position to help identify them for us is cutting off our nose to spite our face.

DWDavisRSL wrote on December 9, 2015, 6:54 PM

The American press won't pay notice to the groups you refer to because they don't fit the template.

DWDavisRSL wrote on December 9, 2015, 7:01 PM

If it comes down to Hillary and Donald, Hillary will win. The 30+% of the current Republican voters who now support Donald will be all that come out to vote because the rest of the party won't back him. Reasonable people already know that Trump would be a foreign policy disaster. You can't look at the head of state of a foreign country who isn't doing what you want him or her to and tell him or her, "You're fired."

FourWalls wrote on December 9, 2015, 9:48 PM

I disagree that JohnRoberts ' argument is irrelevant, because, to me, anyway, the way these things have happened to Christians is exactly WHY the things are happening to innocent Muslims.

The media has gone out of its way over the past 35 years or so to paint extremists like the late Jerry Falwell and his "Moral Majority" or the very much alive and still spewing Pat Robertson as "the typical Christian." Never mind that countless Christians said "these people don't speak for us." The media was unrelenting. The guy who did the Planned Parenthood shooting in Colorado is being portrayed as a "Christian extremist." Even Timothy McVeigh, who by his own admission was an atheist and stated as his last words the quote from William Ernest Henley that "I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul" (expressions that are anathema to Christians who believe that God is the "captain" of their souls), was -- and continues to be -- portrayed as a "Christian."

This media-led "indoctrination" of sorts -- one "kook" is indicative of the entire 2 billion-plus Christian population on earth -- is what is now fueling the anti-Muslim backlash. The media should have been called on this years ago, but they weren't. Now another group of individuals has to suffer the stereotype.

Dawnwriter wrote on December 10, 2015, 2:29 AM

Thank you for this post DWDavisRSL . I am a Muslim and when I hear about killing of innocent people by these Daesh or ISIS people, I feel stunned and afraid. Stunned because it is written very clearly in the Quran that killing of any innocent regardless of their religion or ideology is wrong. Our Prophet said that "Whoever has killed an innocent person shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise." I do not know what these people read or what they are taught. These killings are against the teaching of Islam.

Dawnwriter wrote on December 10, 2015, 2:34 AM

I also want to add that this slogan is very apt. If you want to know more about what Islam says about suicide bombing or mass shootings, please read this article:
http://www.arabnews.com/node/375112

Killing of women, children, sick is strictly prohibited in Islam. Destroying of worship places and those sitting in places of worship is prohibited. I am a Muslim, I read the Quran daily, I read the teachings of our prophet and I cannot understand how these people can justify their actions.

Paulie wrote on December 10, 2015, 2:48 AM

Thank you very much for sharing this news link. I think that most Americans are truly ignorant about the teachings in the Koran.

markgraham wrote on December 10, 2015, 12:44 PM

Sometimes you just have to pray for understanding.

DWDavisRSL wrote on December 10, 2015, 4:24 PM

I cannot express how much your contribution to this discussion means to me. I hope you don't mind but I shared the information you gave with my students today. It is so important they understand the truth about these matters.

Dawnwriter wrote on December 10, 2015, 9:57 PM

DWDavisRSL And I cannot tell you how grateful I am to you for keeping an open mind and encouraging your students to do the same. What most Americans know about Islam and Muslims come from sources that thrive on fear, bigotry and sensationalism. If anyone really wants to know about what Islam is, I suggest they follow lectures by Noman Ali Khan on YouTube or his Bayyinah TV. He is an American Muslim and he does not preach but talks about practical realities. At best, your students will have a healthy debate before making up their minds and that is the most important thing...to understand something before you form an opinion about it.